Monthly Archives: March 2015

Cameron’s workers v shirkers scam has at last exposed the Tory law of benefit cuts

I think we have been desensitised as a nation or is it perhaps just good old fashioned brain washing?  Whilst we continue to demonise people for what is often essentially bad luck like illness infirmity, sudden redundancy’s  that leave people long term unemployed.

Why also is there so much stress on work above  everything else? We work to live rather than live to work unless we are lucky enough to have a vocation of course. The fallacy that  can all work our way out of any hardships is simply not the case.  the universe doesn’t do equal opportunities, but we as human beings can control some aspects and even things up. 


Powered by Guardian.co.ukThis article titled “Cameron’s workers v shirkers scam has at last exposed the Tory law of benefit cuts” was written by Aditya Chakrabortty, for The Guardian on Tuesday 31st March 2015 05.00 UTC

It was the raw early days of the coalition, and one of David Cameron’s lieutenants was giving a frank answer to my blunt question: what would it take for the government to pull back on its planned cuts? You didn’t need a Mensa membership to see that this topic would define the next five years.

On that sunny autumn afternoon, the newspapers were full of students besieging Conservative central office, but Cameron’s aide coolly judged that they’d blown it by picking the wrong target. Had they swarmed on Lib Dem HQ “that would really have put Clegg under pressure”. So what would change Tory minds? “The crunch will come when the Mail puts on its front page pictures of some Iraq war veteran in a wheelchair who’s lost his disability benefits.”

That ugly logic has underpinned this government. Cameron and Nick Clegg have justified social security cuts by reciting a litany of false oppositions. Strivers v skivers. Workers v shirkers. The bedroom tax, the arbitrary removal of benefits from those infringing some bureaucratic small print, the judging of sick people as fit for work£17bn of cutbacks have been sold by ministers, and bought by the public, as falling on the undeserving poor: the mickey-takers on a gigantic, taxpayer-funded bed-in.

What my contact foresaw back in 2010 was that if this political link were ever broken, and money seen to be taken from the plainly deserving, the central plank of austerity would snap in two. However, that Mail front page has never appeared, and yesterday Cameron was able to warn of Labour “chaos … higher taxes for every working family to pay for more welfare”. Even so, the Law of Welfare Cuts has just taken two shattering blows.

The first was delivered by the Conservatives themselves, in the form of a leaked paper discussing options to make more benefit cuts. Commissioned by the Tories, written up by senior civil servants and already under discussion by ministers, the proposals include taking allowances from about 40% of carers for the sick; the scrapping of government compensation for those who’ve suffered industrial injuries; and the taxing of disability benefits.

The Conservatives have tried to stamp all over this story, and with excellent reason. Where’s the justice in taking cash off someone who’s mangled an arm on a construction site, or who’s had to cut back on work to look after a sick child? These savings manifestly break the coalition law of welfare cuts: that they must be seen to be fair.

And they don’t even save that much money. As with so many “reforms” since 2010, these reductions would turn people’s lives upside down, plunge some into debt and tear families apart – and in some cases raise little more than loose change. It may be that we have passed the high tide of public support for cuts in social security – and it would be for exactly the reason predicted by that Conservative aide in 2010. The Tories have set a goal of cutting another £12bn a year from welfare by April 2017. This target is so stupidly implausible that it will force any future government led by Cameron into ever more manifestly unjust benefit cuts. That fictional divide between deserving and undeserving poor may be on the verge of collapse.

How much of a fiction that divide really is can be seen in a new report published by academics at the LSE. Is Welfare Reform Working? is based on two rounds of interviews, first in 2013 and again in 2014, with 200 people who live in the south-west of England, from Plymouth to Bath to just outside Chippenham – where Cameron launched his election campaign yesterday.

In my years writing on this subject, I have read scores of reports and books on welfare reform – but I’ve never seen anything like this. Here are hundreds of people, all living at the sharp end of austerity. Every interviewee is a social-housing tenant of working age, which makes them the number one target of this government. Last September Iain Duncan Smith, in an interview with the Express headlined “We are breaking up Shameless housing estates”, boasted: “We’re making real progress into that stubborn part of the out-of-work group who are in housing estates …” The work and pensions secretary was talking about exactly the LSE interviewees – and this report allows them the right of reply: the LSE authors let their subjects do the talking.

The first thing to come screaming out of the report is how many of the interviewees didn’t plan to be out of work. They’ve got a disability, or they were caring for children or a sick parent, or they were just laid off. You meet Mrs Spencer, who spent seven years out of the jobs market to nurse her daughter through cancer. The daughter died two months ago and the last of their savings went on her funeral. Now her husband has been made redundant after 27 years of work. He’s 59 and has only one eye.

Well over half the respondents claim to be coping. This sounds like good news – until you discover what they mean by that. Getting by means falling behind on rent or into debt; managing means eating less or going without heat. “I’ve got a dog and I’ve got to make sure he’s OK,” one says cheerfully. “If need be I’ll eat his biscuits.”

Re-read that sentence, remembering that you and he live in one of the richest societies on the planet.

How has the government helped? The bedroom tax “is a tax on my disability”, according to one interviewee who used his second bedroom to take oxygen. Respondents hate the jobcentre, which just holds up ever higher hoops to jump through – or else it sanctions them. Another interviewee tells of how his sanction meant that he lost his home, and now sleeps on a sister’s couch.

These people represent a society that has been cut adrift by politicians of all parties: a society that will go unaddressed by the election campaign, and uncourted by any major party. And yet these people talk just like you and me; they just have worse stories to tell.

In that same Express interview, Duncan Smith claimed that he had moved the Shameless estate-dwellers from a “dependency culture” to independence. Here is a different version of events from one of the LSE interviewees: “My best friend committed suicide in March – she went through … relentless reassessments, and found the forms very confusing. She was disabled but they were questioning her over and over again. DWP hounded her for information. It’s a horrible feeling, knowing that your friend was pushed over the edge like that. I’m pretty certain that if these welfare reform changes weren’t going on, I’d still have her with me.”

guardian.co.uk © Guardian News & Media Limited 2010

Published via the Guardian News Feed plugin for WordPress.

A few thoughts on Charity from a well known book

Acts 20:35 ESV / 311 helpful votes

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Hebrews 13:16 ESV / 260 helpful votes

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Matthew 6:1-4 ESV / 223 helpful votes

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Luke 21:1-4 ESV / 129 helpful votes

Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

2 Corinthians 9:7 ESV / 111 helpful votes

Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

1 John 3:17 ESV / 106 helpful votes

But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?

Proverbs 19:17 ESV / 91 helpful votes

Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

Luke 12:33 ESV / 90 helpful votes

Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.

Deuteronomy 15:7-11 ESV / 68 helpful votes

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

Hebrews 13:2 ESV / 63 helpful votes

Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Luke 6:38 ESV / 55 helpful votes

Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

Matthew 5:42 ESV / 40 helpful votes

Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Proverbs 21:13 ESV / 35 helpful votes

Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.

John 13:34-35 ESV / 31 helpful votes

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Hebrews 13:5 ESV / 29 helpful votes

Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 ESV / 29 helpful votes

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; …

Proverbs 31:8-9 ESV / 29 helpful votes

Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

1 Timothy 6:10 ESV / 28 helpful votes

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

James 1:27 ESV / 23 helpful votes

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

1 Timothy 6:9 ESV / 23 helpful votes

But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

1 Corinthians 13:13 ESV / 22 helpful votes

So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Romans 13:8-10 ESV / 21 helpful votes

Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Hebrews 13:1 ESV / 17 helpful votes

Let brotherly love continue.

Matthew 7:12 ESV / 17 helpful votes

“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Acts 4:32-35 ESV / 16 helpful votes

Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

Matthew 25:31-46 ESV / 16 helpful votes

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, …

John 3:17 ESV / 14 helpful votes

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Matthew 22:34-40 ESV / 14 helpful votes

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. …

Matthew 6:14-15 ESV / 14 helpful votes

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 5:17 ESV / 13 helpful votes

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 20:28 ESV / 12 helpful votes

Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Matthew 18:21-35 ESV / 12 helpful votes

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven. “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. …

Matthew 16:26 ESV / 12 helpful votes

For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

Matthew 5:43-48 ESV / 12 helpful votes

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? …

Leviticus 19:18 ESV / 12 helpful votes

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Ephesians 5:11 ESV / 11 helpful votes

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

1 Corinthians 13:4 ESV / 10 helpful votes

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant

Luke 16:13 ESV / 10 helpful votes

No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

Mark 12:31 ESV / 10 helpful votes

The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

1 John 4:1 ESV / 9 helpful votes

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1 Peter 5:14 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Greet one another with the kiss of love. Peace to all of you who are in Christ.

Helpful Not Helpful
1 Peter 1:1-25 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. …

James 2:1 ESV / 8 helpful votes

My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory.

1 Corinthians 13:8 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

Matthew 6:24 ESV / 8 helpful votes

“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Isaiah 1:1-31 ESV / 8 helpful votes

The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: “Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master’s crib, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.” Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the Lord, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged. Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. …

James 2:15-16 ESV / 7 helpful votes

If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV / 7 helpful votes

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Ephesians 6:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

Galatians 6:1-10 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load. …

2 Corinthians 8:12 ESV / 7 helpful votes

For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have.

2 Corinthians 6:14 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV / 7 helpful votes

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Psalm 91:1-16 ESV / 7 helpful votes

He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, …

Deuteronomy 15:7-8 ESV / 7 helpful votes

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be.

Philippians 3:8 ESV / 5 helpful votes

Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ

Luke 4:4 ESV / 5 helpful votes

And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’”

Isaiah 55:1 ESV / 5 helpful votes

“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Isaiah 55:1-2 ESV / 5 helpful votes

“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread, and your labor for that which does not satisfy? Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good, and delight yourselves in rich food.

Psalm 121:1-8 ESV / 5 helpful votes

A Song of Ascents. I lift up my eyes to the hills. From where does my help come? My help comes from the Lord, who made heaven and earth. He will not let your foot be moved; he who keeps you will not slumber. Behold, he who keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep. The Lord is your keeper; the Lord is your shade on your right hand. …

Exodus 23:11 ESV / 5 helpful votes

But the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave the beasts of the field may eat. You shall do likewise with your vineyard, and with your olive orchard.

Matthew 21:1-46 ESV / 3 helpful votes

Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, “Say to the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’” …

Revelation 2:14 ESV / 2 helpful votes

But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality.

James 1:1 ESV / 2 helpful votes

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings.

1 Corinthians 5:6 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?

Romans 16:17 ESV / 2 helpful votes

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Suggest a Verse
Enter a Verse Reference (e.g., John 3:16-17)
Visit the Bible online to search for words if you don’t know the specific passage your’re looking for.

Unless otherwise indicated, all content is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution License. All Scripture quotations, unless otherwise indicated, are taken from The Holy Bible, English Standard Version. Copyright ©2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Contact me: openbibleinfo (at) gmail.com. Cite this page: Editor: Stephen Smith. Publication date: Jan 19, 2015. Publisher: OpenBible.info.
Acts 20:35 ESV / 311 helpful votes

In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Hebrews 13:16 ESV / 260 helpful votes

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Matthew 6:1-4 ESV / 223 helpful votes

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

Luke 21:1-4 ESV / 129 helpful votes

Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

2 Corinthians 9:7 ESV / 111 helpful votes

Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

1 John 3:17 ESV / 106 helpful votes

But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?

Proverbs 19:17 ESV / 91 helpful votes

Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

Luke 12:33 ESV / 90 helpful votes

Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.

Deuteronomy 15:7-11 ESV / 68 helpful votes

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

Hebrews 13:2 ESV / 63 helpful votes

Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Luke 6:38 ESV / 55 helpful votes

Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

Matthew 5:42 ESV / 40 helpful votes

Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Proverbs 21:13 ESV / 35 helpful votes

Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered.

John 13:34-35 ESV / 31 helpful votes

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Hebrews 13:5 ESV / 29 helpful votes

Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

1 Corinthians 13:1-13 ESV / 29 helpful votes

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; …

Proverbs 31:8-9 ESV / 29 helpful votes

Open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute. Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

1 Timothy 6:10 ESV / 28 helpful votes

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

James 1:27 ESV / 23 helpful votes

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

1 Timothy 6:9 ESV / 23 helpful votes

But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

1 Corinthians 13:13 ESV / 22 helpful votes

So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Romans 13:8-10 ESV / 21 helpful votes

Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Hebrews 13:1 ESV / 17 helpful votes

Let brotherly love continue.

Matthew 7:12 ESV / 17 helpful votes

“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Acts 4:32-35 ESV / 16 helpful votes

Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.

Matthew 25:31-46 ESV / 16 helpful votes

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, …

John 3:17 ESV / 14 helpful votes

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Matthew 22:34-40 ESV / 14 helpful votes

But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. …

Matthew 6:14-15 ESV / 14 helpful votes

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 5:17 ESV / 13 helpful votes

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 20:28 ESV / 12 helpful votes

Even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Matthew 18:21-35 ESV / 12 helpful votes

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven. “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. …

Matthew 16:26 ESV / 12 helpful votes

For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

Matthew 5:43-48 ESV / 12 helpful votes

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? …

Leviticus 19:18 ESV / 12 helpful votes

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Ephesians 5:11 ESV / 11 helpful votes

Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

1 Corinthians 13:4 ESV / 10 helpful votes

Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant

Luke 16:13 ESV / 10 helpful votes

No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

Mark 12:31 ESV / 10 helpful votes

The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

1 John 4:1 ESV / 9 helpful votes

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

1 Peter 5:14 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Greet one another with the kiss of love. Peace to all of you who are in Christ.

Helpful Not Helpful
1 Peter 1:1-25 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. …

James 2:1 ESV / 8 helpful votes

My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory.

1 Corinthians 13:8 ESV / 8 helpful votes

Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

Matthew 6:24 ESV / 8 helpful votes

“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Isaiah 1:1-31 ESV / 8 helpful votes

The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah. Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth; for the Lord has spoken: “Children have I reared and brought up, but they have rebelled against me. The ox knows its owner, and the donkey its master’s crib, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand.” Ah, sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, offspring of evildoers, children who deal corruptly! They have forsaken the Lord, they have despised the Holy One of Israel, they are utterly estranged. Why will you still be struck down? Why will you continue to rebel? The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. …

James 2:15-16 ESV / 7 helpful votes

If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?

2 Timothy 3:16 ESV / 7 helpful votes

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Ephesians 6:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

Galatians 6:1-10 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load. …

2 Corinthians 8:12 ESV / 7 helpful votes

For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have.

2 Corinthians 6:14 ESV / 7 helpful votes

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

1 Corinthians 5:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV / 7 helpful votes

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Psalm 91:1-16 ESV / 7 helpful votes

He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.” For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence. He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day, …

Deuteronomy 15:7-8 ESV / 7 helpful votes

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be.

Philippians 3:8 ESV / 5 helpful votes

Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ

Luke 4:4 ESV / 5 helpful votes

And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone.’”

Isaiah 55:1 ESV / 5 helpful votes

“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Isaiah 55:1-2 ESV / 5 helpful votes

“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread, and your labor for that which does not satisfy? Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good, and delight yourselves in rich food.

Psalm 121:1-8 ESV / 5 helpful votes

A Song of Ascents. I lift up my eyes to the hills. From where does my help come? My help comes from the Lord, who made heaven and earth. He will not let your foot be moved; he who keeps you will not slumber. Behold, he who keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep. The Lord is your keeper; the Lord is your shade on your right hand. …

Exodus 23:11 ESV / 5 helpful votes

But the seventh year you shall let it rest and lie fallow, that the poor of your people may eat; and what they leave the beasts of the field may eat. You shall do likewise with your vineyard, and with your olive orchard.

Matthew 21:1-46 ESV / 3 helpful votes

Now when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, “Go into the village in front of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord needs them,’ and he will send them at once.” This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying, “Say to the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your king is coming to you, humble, and mounted on a donkey, and on a colt, the foal of a beast of burden.’” …

Revelation 2:14 ESV / 2 helpful votes

But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality.

James 1:1 ESV / 2 helpful votes

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings.

1 Corinthians 5:6 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?

Romans 16:17 ESV / 2 helpful votes

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.

Suggest a Verse
Enter a Verse Reference (e.g., John 3:16-17)
Visit the Bible online to search for words if you don’t know the specific passage your’re looking for.

Unless otherwise indicated, all content is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution License. All Scripture quotations, unless otherwise indicated, are taken from The Holy Bible, English Standard Version. Copyright ©2001 by Crossway Bibles, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers. Contact me: openbibleinfo (at) gmail.com. Cite this page: Editor: Stephen Smith. Publication date: Jan 19, 2015. Publisher: OpenBible.info.

Benefit sanctions: the 10 trivial breaches and administrative errors

I must admit I live in absolute terror of being in a situation where I might ever have deal with the tender mercy’s of the DWP.  So far I have been fortunate enough to avoid any involvement but  it is  a case of there but for the grace of … 

A lot of this is positively kafkaesque.  I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone sitting behind a desk at the DWP would behave in some of the examples shown below.
Is it because they are in fear of losing their own jobs? In some cases it would seem that is the case. Have the simply been brainwashed by the sensationalist stories fed to the press?

Perhaps I really am getting out of touch with how the world is now.

Powered by Guardian.co.ukThis article titled “Benefit sanctions: the 10 trivial breaches and administrative errors” was written by Patrick Butler Social policy editor, for theguardian.com on Tuesday 24th March 2015 01.44 UTC

The coalition’s benefit sanctions regime, under which more than 1 million jobseekers had their unemployment benefits stopped last year, has spawned hundreds of documentary accounts of claimants being penalised for capricious, cruel and often absurd reasons.

The recent MPs’ inquiry into sanctions heard copious evidence of claimants being docked hundreds of pounds and pitched into financial crisis for often absurdly trivial breaches of benefit conditions, or for administrative errors beyond their control.

A typical example is the following anonymised list of sanctions reported by food bank clients to the Trussell trust charity:

  1. Man who missed appointment due to being at hospital with his partner, who had just had a stillborn child.
  2. Man sanctioned for missing an appointment at the jobcentre on the day of his brother’s unexpected death. He had tried to phone Jobcentre Plus to explain, but could not get through and left a message which was consequently not relayed to the appropriate person.
  3. Man who carried out 60 job searches but missed one which matched his profile.
  4. Man had an appointment at the jobcentre on the Tuesday, was taken to hospital with a suspected heart attack that day, missed the appointment and was sanctioned for nine weeks.
  5. Man who secured employment and was due to start in three weeks. He was sanctioned in the interim period because JCP told him he was still duty bound to send his CV to other companies.
  6. Young couple who had not received any letters regarding an appointment that was thus subsequently missed. Their address at the Department for Work and Pensions was wrongly recorded. They were left with no money for over a month.
  7. One case where the claimant’s wife went into premature labour and had to go to hospital. This caused the claimant to miss an appointment. No leeway given.
  8. One man sanctioned for attending a job interview instead of Jobcentre Plus – he got the job so did not pursue grievance against the JCP.
  9. Man who requested permission to attend the funeral of his best friend; permission declined; sanctioned when he went anyway.
  10. A diabetic sanctioned and unable to buy food was sent to hospital by GP as a consequence.

Sometimes sanctions have a bizarre, nightmarish quality, such as this one, reported by Highbridge and Burnham-on-Sea food bank and cited in a recent Church Action on Poverty report:

We had a number of customers who had been sanctioned including one guy who had been sanctioned for being late for his appointment at the jobcentre because the queue was so long it took him to past his appointment time to be seen. He was sanctioned even though he had arrived at the jobcentre in plenty of time.

Or this one, cited on the A Selection Of Especially Stupid Benefit Sanctions tumblr website (and taken from a local newspaper report)

You apply for three jobs one week and three jobs the following Sunday and Monday. Because the jobcentre week starts on a Tuesday it treats this as applying for six jobs in one week and none the following week. You are sanctioned for 13 weeks for failing to apply for three jobs each week.

The consequences, however can be severe. One claimant, Glenn McDougall, recalled his experience of being sanctioned three times in written evidence to the work and pensions committee inquiry:

On the first occasion I cancelled a jobcentre appointment to go to a job interview. It was short notice however I phoned the jobcentre to inform them and was assured on the phone that it was ok. I was sanctioned two weeks JSA. I appealed this and was found to be in the right and the money was paid to me, which was great, but in the interim I had to go two weeks without a penny to my name. I missed other job interviews because I had no money for transport and went without food, electric and heating for some of that time. It was a cruel punishment issued arbitrarily, had a negative impact on my jobseeking and diminished my respect for the benefit system massively.

The committee heard that claimants with learning difficulties, were especially vulnerable to sanctioning. Here’s an example provided by the charity Mencap:

AP has a learning disability and was given 30 job searching actions every week after he applied for JSA. These actions included accessing UJM [universal job match] every week. However, he did not have the IT skills necessary to do this and was not given support by JCP [Jobcentre Plus] to do this. He had, however, still been pro-active in applying for jobs. He showed the JCP several pages of handwritten job notes. They would not accept these as they were handwritten and not using UJM. He was then sanctioned. Given his lack of IT skills and the lack of IT support by JCP, Mencap argues that handwritten notes are a reasonable adjustment. He had already been sanctioned by JCP several times.

Claimants with mental illness are also at high risk of being sanctioned, with serious health consequences. Here’s Jessica’s story, cited in research by Durham University academics Kayleigh Garthwaite and Claire Bambra:

Jessica is a 23-year-old woman, who was 22 weeks pregnant when she came to the foodbank. She had walked over two miles to get here as she cannot afford the bus fare from her flat. Jessica explained that she was receiving ESA [employment support allowance] for mental health problems following the stillborn birth of her first child eight months ago. Jessica was sanctioned for not attending a work-focused interview appointment – her mental health problems prevented her from leaving the house on that particular day. She received a foodbank referral from the Citizens Advice Bureau after seeking help for her mounting debts following her sanction. Jessica had not eaten a proper cooked meal for two weeks, and was instead relying on her sister’s children’s leftovers. Jessica explained: “I haven’t had my fridge or cooker switched on for three weeks, I can’t afford the electric. I sold the telly last week – there was no point in keeping it ‘cos I couldn’t afford to use it anyway.” As Jessica is 22 weeks pregnant, she knows she needs to eat healthily for herself and her unborn child, but currently cannot afford to adequately heat her home or feed herself.

The cross-party group of MPs on the committee has called for an independent review of sanctions. According to committee chair Anne Begg:

We agree that benefit conditionality is necessary but it is essential that policy is based on clear evidence of what works in terms of encouraging people to take up the support which is available to help them get back into work. The policy must then be applied fairly and proportionately. The system must also be capable of identifying and protecting vulnerable people, including those with mental health problems and learning disabilities. And it should avoid causing severe financial hardship. The system as currently applied does not always achieve this.

guardian.co.uk © Guardian News & Media Limited 2010

Published via the Guardian News Feed plugin for WordPress.

Cameron has edge over Miliband in TV battle, Guardian/ICM poll shows – live

Lets get the word out there and seriously think about what how we vote in May.
You might feel that your safe and secure and nothings going to touch you, but circumstances change. Lets get out of this race to the bottom.


Powered by Guardian.co.ukThis article titled “Cameron has edge over Miliband in TV battle, Guardian/ICM poll shows – live” was written by Andrew Sparrow, for theguardian.com on Friday 27th March 2015 00.48 UTC

12.33am GMT

All our coverage of tonight’s TV battle – in one place

Paxman
‘Are you alright?’ ‘Yes – are YOU alright?’ Photograph: Getty Images

We’ve just launched a Comment is free round-up with commentary on tonight’s Cameron/Miliband non-debate showdown from Polly Toynbee, Jonathan Freedland, Matthew d’Ancona, Hugh Muir Gaby Hinsliff and Aditya Chakrabortty. Here’s an extract from Polly’s article.

Miliband had just enough chance to mention what he cares about most – inequality, decent pay and fair chances. Will that carry him through? Without pointing a finger at the government for the rich by the rich, the contrast between their chosen issues was there for all to see. Here was the personality choice too – a highly polished professional politician pitched against an amateur, boyish enthusiast, lacking the gloss and the experience. Which quality is valued more by the alienated undecideds remains uncertain.

You can read all six articles here.

And here is a round-up of all the other articles on our site on the showdown.

And here is some video

That’s all from me for tonight.

Thanks for the comments.

Updated at 12.48am GMT

12.23am GMT

Here is some alternative analysis of what Twitter sentiment said about who won the encounter. Unlike the Sun’s findings (see 11.18pm), this chart shows Ed Miliband winning easily.

Twitter analysis
Twitter analysis Photograph: Centre for the Analysis of Social Media

This is from Jamie Bartlett, from the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media.

12.15am GMT

David Cameron posted this on Twitter after the encounter.

12.08am GMT

Both sides were contacting journalists during and after the Cameron/Miliband showdown with their “spin”. Labour concentrated on sending me text messages.

But, when it came to sending emails, the Tories beat Labour hands down. Here’s my inbox from earlier.

My email inbox
My email inbox Photograph: Guardian

11.57pm GMT

We’ve got two videos from the exchanges up already, but we’ve got two more videos, with lengthy highlights from David Cameron and Ed Miliband, due to launch in the next 10 minutes or so.

11.54pm GMT

On Twitter some people have been suggesting that ICM must have carried out their poll before the end of Ed Miliband’s exchanges with Jeremy Paxman. That might explain why ICM puts Cameron ahead, they suggest.

I’m told this is not the case. The post-event poll was launched at 10.27pm, after Paxman’s interview with Miliband was over.

11.46pm GMT

YouGov’s app poll: 51% says Cameron won, 49% Miliband

YouGov has been polling tonight’s Cameron/Miliband showdown using a new app.

According to this, Cameron won by a very slim margin.

11.39pm GMT

Alberto Nardelli

</body></html></body></html>”> One challenge when looking at polling around debates is determining pre-existing bias. In other words, most Conservative voters think Cameron won, most Labour voters think Miliband won – the question is what did everyone else think?

Lib Dem supporters broke for Miliband 52% to 48%. Ukip voters for Cameron 70% to 30%.

The topline shows Cameron won the debate according to 54% of respondents.

However, when asked who they thought would make the better PM, 48% said Cameron, 40% Miliband. Now usually on this question, Cameron enjoys a much more significant 15-20 point gap.

Also, among the 8% in the ICM poll that said the debate might change their mind, 56% of these said they would now consider voting Labour, and 30% for the Tories.

Public opinion takes time to stabilise, Miliband began the evening miles behind Cameron when it comes to personal ratings. Tonight he may have narrowed that gap.

<

p class=”block-time updated-time”>Updated at 11.46pm GMT

11.35pm GMT

ICM poll data in full

Here are the full ICM poll tables.

Updated at 11.35pm GMT

11.34pm GMT

Questions that made PM splutter: Cameron v Paxman – video

David Cameron is also given a rough ride. Paxman, in his signature style, presses the prime minister on the minimum wage, foreign policy and his 2010 pledges on VAT. Watch our compilation of Paxman’s best questions

Updated at 11.36pm GMT

11.33pm GMT

Hell yes! Miliband v Paxman – video

Ed Miliband develops something of a catchphrase during his televised Q&A with Jeremy Paxman. The Labour leader has a lot of explaining to do as he answers questions on immigration, his brother, and whether he’s tough enough for the job of prime minister

11.27pm GMT

Verdict from the Twitter commentariat

Here is a selection of the most interesting tweets I’ve seen from political journalists and commentators who have expressed a view on the Cameron/Miliband showdown.

If ICM are giving it to Cameron (by a small margin), the commentariat are giving it to Miliband.

11.18pm GMT

The Sun has been using sentiment analytics to track reactions to the interviews and Q&As on Twitter.

And their verdict is – a bit mixed.

Well, it seems there was no clear overall winner, with both of them getting a kicking on Twitter.

It was a good night for Paxman, who put both leaders through the wringer, with poor Ed coming off worse.

But Miliband had a stronger showing during the Q&A section, which may have been enough to give him the edge overall.

11.14pm GMT

Behavioural psychologist Dr Peter Collett’s verdict

David Cameron started off talking too fast.
David Cameron started off talking too fast. Photograph: Getty Images

It was really a game of two halves, and I didn’t think there was a lot to chose between them when it came to the audience interrogation. There were certainly signs that Cameron scored when it came to the Paxman interview.

Miliband showed signs of being more jokey, especially towards the end – the acid test is the cut away. It’s not simply a matter of trying to deconstruct how the party leaders behaved but rather looking for cues as to the impact of their behaviours on the audience. If you looked at how the audience were reacting, you could see that they were far more amused when Paxman scored a point against Miliband, than they were when he managed to put down Cameron.

But both leaders seemed rattled. They were using a lot of dominance displays in order to try and reassert themselves: using stiff wrists, a lot of heavy gesticulation and frowning. There was lip licking by Cameron, which is his signature sign of distress. Both were also using finger counting unconsciously in an attempt to discourage Paxman from interrupting them. “What I would like to say is” and up goes the thumb. What this says to Paxman is “Hey I have a list of things to say, don’t interrupt me. Both of them got roughed up quite a bit – I wasn’t overwhelemd by either.

Cameron didn’t start off terribly well in his conversation with Paxman, partly because he was talking too fast and there was no light and shade. Speech speed is a key indication of who is in control. But then he settled in, particularly when he pushed back against Paxman.

Dr Peter Collett is a behavioural psychologist and former Oxford don

Updated at 11.18pm GMT

11.11pm GMT

The ICM poll also asked about character.

Ed Miliband did better than David Cameron on four counts: governing in the interests of the many not the few (55% v 27%); having the courage to say what’s right rather than what’s popular (51% v 35%); and understanding “people like me” (48% v 25%). And, when asked which leader was more spin than substance, Miliband also did better. Some 49% said Cameron was more spin than substance, but only 35% for Miliband.

Cameron also won on four counts: being respected around the word (58% to 19%): being decisive (54% to 29%); being good in a crisis (46% to 21%); and being backed by his party (58% to 21%).

The two men are almost equally matched on having “changed his party for the better”. Some 36% say that of Cameron, and 35% of Miliband.

Updated at 11.17pm GMT

11.09pm GMT

Rowena Mason

</body></html></body></html>”> More from Rowena Mason in the spin room, who has been talking to William Hague. He denied Cameron was out of sorts because the government’s Commons bid to unseat Speaker John Bercow was defeated.

The prime minister was not grumpy. He does not get grumpy and he showed no sign of being that tonight

Asked why Cameron did not get the audience laughing and at ease as Miliband did, Hague said:

They were laughing at him and pointing out Ed Balls was a weak point in the shadow cabinet. The prime minister handled the entire interview extremely well.

<

p class=”block-time updated-time”>Updated at 11.15pm GMT

11.04pm GMT

Ed Miliband and Jeremy Paxman in the Sky studio. They’re both alright.
Ed Miliband and Jeremy Paxman in the Sky studio. They’re both alright. Photograph: Stefan Rousseau/PA

11.03pm GMT

More from the ICM poll.

Only 8% of those polled overall indicated that they were likely to have changed their mind about how they would vote at the election on the basis of what they saw tonight.

Amongst those, 56% said they would now vote Labour. And just 30% said they were now backing the Conservatives.

11.00pm GMT

Nigel Farage.
Nigel Farage.

Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, said Miliband had clearly given a better performance, giving him 7/10 against Cameron’s 4/10, Rowena Mason reports.

“It was not what I expected at all,” Farage said. “In terms of personalities, he fought back more, was more human and got the audience clapping. Cameron was nowhere near that. Cameron looked discomfited.”

Updated at 11.02pm GMT

10.59pm GMT

Douglas Alexander, Labour’s election chief, said it was a “powerful, powerful performance [from Ed Miliband] but it wasn’t so much about performance as it was about substance”.

He said Cameron’s answers were “poor”, particularly the one about students choosing zero-hour contracts.

Asked about the poll showing Cameron winning, Alexander said: “If you look at the numbers that emerge in the coming weeks, the numbers that matter are the numbers on May 7 … I haven’t even looked at the numbers but we are protagonists not commentators.”

10.55pm GMT

Guardian/ICM poll shows Cameron wins – just: Cameron 54%, Miliband 46%

Tom Clark

</body></html></body></html>”> An instant Guardian/ICM poll found that David Cameron had narrowly “won” the contest with 54% saying that the PM came out on top once the don’t knows were excluded, compared with just 46% who felt that Miliband had the edge.

The sample of viewers, who were weighted to bring them in line with the broader population, were asked to put aside their party preference and concentrate only on what they heard during the programme, 46% felt that Cameron had the best arguments, as against 44% who said the same of Miliband. Cameron was also judged slightly more convincing – by 48% to 43% – and to have the more appealing personality, by 46% to 42%. He chalked up a clearer win on “actually answering the questions asked”, by 44% to 37%.

There was better news for Miliband when it comes to the crucial question of shifting votes: 56% of the sub-sample who said they might change their mind will now plump for Labour, as against just 30% for the Conservatives.

David Cameron retains his lead as best prime minister in this survey – but by a smaller margin than in many past polls – he is preferred on this count by 48% as against just 40% for Miliband.

ICM interviewed 3,650 adults aged 18+ online on 24-26th March. All agreed to watch the Cameron vs Miliband Live: the Battle for Number 10, and to complete a second interview immediately after it finished, which 1,123 did in the first few minutes. The data on both waves were weighted to the profile of all GB adults, including to recall of 2010 General Election voting. In essence, the post-wave data is ICM’s best guess on what a representative sample of the voting population would say had they all watched the programme.

<

p class=”block-time updated-time”>Updated at 11.00pm GMT

10.51pm GMT

Rupert Murdoch was watching.

I don’t think President Obama has tweeted about Ed Miliband yet, though.

10.45pm GMT

Poll findings – Snap analysis

Andrew Sparrow

</body></html></body></html>”>

There are three snap observations on our poll.

1) A win is a win. David Cameron is entitled to celebrate victory.

2) But, given Ed Miliband’s personal ratings before tonight, Miliband is the man who has outperformed his benchmark – quite significantly.

3) And this does cause problems for the Tories, because depicting Miliband as unfit to be prime minister constitutes about 50% of their election strategy. (The long-term economic plan is the other 50%). Labour are attacking Cameron, of course, but their campaign is not founded on the notion that he is manifestly incapable of running the country.

10.43pm GMT

Esther Addley

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>And the big winner tonight is... Sunil! Who asked such a good question (“Do you not think your brother would have done a better job?”) , even Jeremy Paxman found himself returning to it towards the end when he wasn’t the only one starting to flag.</p> <p>Otherwise, whatever your view of their answers, it seems clear that Miliband secured a huge advantage in winning the toss and putting Cameron in to bat first, allowing his half-time pep-talkers to slap him about the face a few times and send him out swinging. </p> <p>He is, let us recall, “a pretty resilient guy”. As is his “poor mother”, who may have had to endure the “bruising” split of her sons, but having been forced to flee a town from which tens of thousands were transported to Treblinka, may feel she’s had worse.</p> <p>All of which aside - can he eat three Shredded Wheat? We may never know, since Burley dodged the question. Call that a fair non-debate?</p> </div>

10.38pm GMT

Our poll result is out. And Cameron wins - just.

Cameron: 54%

Miliband: 46%

More soon ...

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:59:55.413Z">at 10.59pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.36pm GMT

Cameron/Miliband showdown - Overall snap verdict

Cameron/Miliband showdown - Overall snap verdict: You can see why Ed Miliband wanted to go second. Anyone voting now in our poll will have the memory of Miliband’s exchange with Paxman foremost in their mind, and I expect many people will conclude he was impressive. Although I said earlier he seemed a bit over-rehearsed, he also produced some good spontaneous comebacks (like the one about Cameron on the tube). Overall, the encounter did not contain any big surprises - they rarely do - and, whatever our poll says, it is unlikely to decide the election. But these were compelling, lively encounters, and proof that hard interviews can actually work to the advantage of those being interviewed too.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:37:50.209Z">at 10.37pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.30pm GMT

Paxman interviews Miliband - Snap verdict

Paxman interviews Miliband - Snap verdict: Miliband has put in hours of practice for these encounters, and it showed. To my ears, some of the assertive lines - hell, yes, he is tough enough; who cares what people think; he has always been underestimated - sounded a tad over-rehearsed. But I thought the same about Tony Blair’s “people’s princess”, which was one of the most successful soundbites ever, and my guess is that people will generally respond positively to this Miliband. Paxman almost disconcerted him with the energy question, and he picked up Miliband’s tendency to answer his own questions, but, overall, Miliband was in control and I would expect him to do well in our poll.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:34:18.150Z">at 10.34pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.29pm GMT

Miliband and Paxman: apparently they’re both alright.

Miliband and Paxman: apparently they're both alright.
<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:30:10.985Z">at 10.30pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.25pm GMT

Image

Q: Simon Danczuk says you are a liability.

Miliband says he does not care. He has stood up to people like Obama and Rupert Murdoch.

Who cares what people think?

Q: People say your brother would do a better job?

Miliband says he has been underestimated. People never thought he would be leader.

That’s why he wants to be prime minster.

At the end Paxman asks him if he is alright. (It sounds as if the mike is meant to be off.) “Yes,” says Miliband, “are you?”

Ed Miliband poses with Kay Burley and Jeremy Paxman.
Ed Miliband poses with Kay Burley and Jeremy Paxman. Photograph: Getty Images
<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T23:25:14.986Z">at 11.25pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.23pm GMT

Leadership

Q: I met someone on the tube recently who said you weren’t tough enough to stand up to Putin.

Was it David Cameron?

Q: He doesn’t take the tube much.

That’s unfair to Cameron, says Miliband.

He says he resisted pressure to back the government over bombing Syria. He stood up to President Barack Obama. Is he tough enough? Hell, yes, he is tough enough.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:31:27.555Z">at 10.31pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.23pm GMT

Esther Addley

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>Jeremy Paxman has met another real person. On the tube. Drink!<br />Ed: “Was it David Cameron you spoke to on the tube?”<br />It wasn’t, you will be amazed to learn.</p> <figure class="element element-tweet" data-canonical-url="https://twitter.com/stephenkb/statuses/581220097819279360"> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>If Ed Miliband doesn't care about what the newspapers say, he must *really* hate immigrants. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BattleForNumber10?src=hash">#BattleForNumber10</a></p>&mdash; Stephen Bush (@stephenkb) <a href="https://twitter.com/stephenkb/status/581220097819279360">March 26, 2015</a></blockquote> </figure> </div> <p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:25:30.012Z">at 10.25pm GMT</time></p>

10.21pm GMT

The SNP and Alex Salmond

Q: As for Alex Salmond’s demands, will you scrap Trident?

No, says Miliband.

Q: What about starting HS2 in Scotland?

Miliband says he is not going to get into a negotiation with Salmond.

Paxman says he will have to.

Miliband says that is presumptious. It is not up to him to decide the election.

Q: You really think you can win a majority?

Yes, says Miliband.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:31:44.807Z">at 10.31pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.20pm GMT

Miliband fronts up to Paxman's questions.
Miliband fronts up to Paxman’s questions. Photograph: Sky screengrab
<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:25:37.477Z">at 10.25pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.19pm GMT

The mansion tax

Q: Jim Murphy said the mansion tax was a way of taking money out of the south of England and giving it to Scotland.

Miliband says he does not accept that.

The mansion tax will affect homes worth more than £2m. Many of those are in London. There will be “consequentials”, and some money will go to Scotland. But some will go to Newcastle as well. That is part of being a United Kingdom.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:23:41.813Z">at 10.23pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.17pm GMT

Energy

Q: On energy policy, you used to think raising energy bills was a great way of helping the environment. Now you want to cut them.

Miliband says he never said raising energy bills was a way of saving the environment.

Q: You introduced a levy.

Miliband says he also wanted bills to be fair. There will be upward pressure on bills in the long run. But that makes it all the more important to make it fair.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:20:49.313Z">at 10.20pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.16pm GMT

The economy

Q: You’ve been wrong on unemployment, inflation and wages.

Wages have fallen, says Miliband.

Q: What would you cut?

Miliband cites the winter fuel allowance for wealthy pensioners. There would be cuts for the police and local government.

Q: How much does that save?

Miliband says he will make these decisions in government.

He is proposing cuts outside a few protected areas. Tony Blair never did that.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:20:16.105Z">at 10.20pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.14pm GMT

Esther Addley

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <figure class="element element-image" data-media-id="7f8050578f1441873c772322fcdd7987d0a4f68f"> <img src="https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/26/1427408323078/6a22d778-aa91-4ffd-9470-d18fd213ecb1-460x276.jpeg" alt="Miliband" width="460" height="276" class="gu-image" /> </figure> <p>So Miliband didn’t fall over and accidentally kick himself in the face, which means he’s already ahead. But whatever the reason behind Burley waking up and being considerably more interventionist with the Labour leader than with Cameron, that was certainly a livelier audience session, despite two “I make no bones about it”s, two “we can do better”s and several “let me say this”-es from Ed.</p> <p>At least we’ve found the first star of the night in Sunil, who asked the best audience question in history: “Do you not think your brother would have done a better job?” Unusually, it actually got quite a revealing response.</p> <figure class="element element-tweet" data-canonical-url="https://twitter.com/laurenlaverne/statuses/581216308987039744"> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Paxman's on now. I hope HE remembers to ask about the Shredded Wheat. The nation must know. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BattleForNumber10?src=hash">#BattleForNumber10</a></p>&mdash; Lauren Laverne (@laurenlaverne) <a href="https://twitter.com/laurenlaverne/status/581216308987039744">March 26, 2015</a></blockquote> </figure> </div> <p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:18:49.544Z">at 10.18pm GMT</time></p>

10.14pm GMT

Immigration

Q: Labour got immigration completely wrong. Some 400,000 people came in. What else did Labour do wrong?

Two things, says Miliband. He says he is proud of much of what the government did. But there was too much inequality.

Q: Did you borrow too much?

Miliband says borrowing got too high, but that was because of the financial crisis.

Q: Did you spend too much?

Miliband says, if you are saying too much spending caused the crisis.

Paxman says Miliband is answering his own questions again. He poses the question.

Miliband says Paxman is now asking his own questions.

Q: What did you spend too much on?

The Millennium Dome was unnecessary, says Miliband.

Fact check on Miliband’s claim on living standards by FullFact.org

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:51:41.659Z">at 10.51pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.11pm GMT

Immigration

Miliband says he wants sensible controls on immigration. But, if you are asking about the EU ...

I’m not, says Paxman. You are inventing your own questions.

Q: What level should it be?

Miliband says he is not going to pluck a figure out of the air. But there should be controls.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:19:49.297Z">at 10.19pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.10pm GMT

Paxman interviews Miliband

Q: Do you think Britain is full?

In terms of immigration ...

Yees (a classic Paxo drawl)

Miliband says he would not put it like that.

Q: Labour got it wrong on immigration.

Yes, says Miliband.

(He is distancing himself from the Blair/Brown record again. See 10.07pm.)

</div>

10.08pm GMT

Esther Addley

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>Well that was Cameron, or rather, the two Camerons – frazzled, essay crisis Cameron getting a hellish tutorial grilling, and chillaxed Dave who tilts his head to one side and emotes with voters and whose biggest regret is that he didn’t get to do more of the all the really great things he has done.</p> <p>He has, at least, succeeded in uniting the nation on a number of crucial points:</p> <p>- This Uncle Tom Cobbley sounds like an promising choice for Tory leader</p> <p>- Hasn’t Zayn Malik aged a lot since he left One Direction?</p> <p>- More Paxo please, one nation Tory or not.</p> </div>

10.07pm GMT

The view on Cameron from our BritainThinks voters

But what do the real voters think about Cameron’s performance tonight? We have 60 on standby to give their view throughout the election campaign as part of our joint polling project with the pollsters BritainThinks.

The people in the focus groups are all undecided voters from five key seats. They each have an app and some of them are online now telling us what they think of the Cameron’s interview with Paxman as it happened.

The overall feeling is that Cameron actually fared well, Deborah Mattinson, Founder of Britain Thinks says.

One describes him as “composed”.

Another says: “I’m rather impressed so far.”

“I think he did well.”

“Holding his own.”

“I have a lot of respect - he doesn’t get flustered.”

“I have a lot of respect for Cameron - he doesn’t get too flustered even when he’s grilled by Paxman! He seems honest and down to earth.

“Cameron has his facts and figures to hand and is not allowing Paxman to throw him off course in giving his answers, despite tough questioning from him.”

“Superb Cameron so far, very switched on and trustworthy.”

The initial responses on Miliband are not so positive.

“Ed Miliband doesn’t seem to speak as confidently as David Cameron. Also not as ready with the numbers as David Cameron.”

“First time I’ve listened to Ed Miliband… Arrrr 80 minutes of it.”

“Milibands words sound like a fairytale. Easier said than done.”

“David v Ed question put him on the spot! Do I vote for someone who would undermine his brother like he did?”

Deborah’s summary of the panel’s views so far: “Top line view is that DC’s performance is more assured and confident than EM - also better command of facts and figures. All our panel are undecided but this view cuts across geography and current party preferences. In particular we saw praise for Cam from some Scottish participants and some Labour leaners. People in the panel are responding to the policies in a partisan way but even strong anti-Tories in this small sample tended to rate Cameron’s performance over Miliband’s.”

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:08:38.722Z">at 10.08pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.07pm GMT

As Miliband answers questions from the audience, his brother is tweeting about displaced Burmese people ...

... much to the consternation of his followers.

</body></html>">
</div>

10.07pm GMT

Miliband’s Q&A with Burley - Snap verdict

Miliband’s Q&A with Burley - Snap verdict: Labour will be pleased with that. The Miliband we saw bore no real relation to the “weak”, “despicable” character that Cameron talks about at PMQs. He sounded passionate, and engaged well with the audience (from what I heard - it might have looked different to someone watching more). It was striking how much he differentiated himself from Labour’s record, and not having to defend his actions in government, as Cameron did, seemed to give him an advantage. It was also noticeable how keen he was to talk about his pledge to cut tuition fees, even boasting about how it benefited the middle classes, not low earners. Steve Richards revealed recently that one reason Miliband was keen to have a pledge on this was so he could use it as a shield in the debates. Tonight we saw that in action.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:12:34.989Z">at 10.12pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.03pm GMT

Q: Why are you so behind in the polls?

Miliband says he takes an old-fashioned view. The people are the boss. They will decide.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:09:54.156Z">at 10.09pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.03pm GMT

Q: You have made it difficult for your supporters. You have made gaffes. You do not seem to be fighting for the people you should be.

Miliband says his spending plans are very different from the Conservatives.

On gaffes, he says he is not going to win a bacon-sandwich eating contest. But what matters is ideas and decency.

Q: What about Labour’s record on the banks?

Miliband says Labour was wrong on that. He uses the word “wrong” four or five times. He has learnt from that.

Q: Has Ed Balls?

He absolutely has, says Miliband.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:10:35.887Z">at 10.10pm GMT</time></p> </div>

10.00pm GMT

Mili
Mili

Q: How are you going to be different from Nick Clegg? Or are you just going to sugar-coat things?

No, says Miliband.

Q: How do we know?

Miliband cites what he said about tuition fees. He said in 2011 that he would cut them. He has found a way of doing this.

Q: What do you think are Cameron’s best qualities?

Miliband says there are two things he admires. First, Cameron’s commitment to gay marriage. And, second, his commitment to overseas aid spending.

Q: Would you have a pint with him?

Miliband says he is not sure. But he would share a bacon sandwich, he says.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T23:27:00.207Z">at 11.27pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.57pm GMT

Q: Is socialism still an important value?

Miliband says he calls it democratic socialism. But his answer is yes. Every generation must interpret this for themselves. Does the economy only work for the rich? Or does it work for everyone? He wants a fairer, more equal society.

</div>

9.56pm GMT

Q: Wouldn’t your brother do a better job? He was better qualified and better positioned.

Miliband says it won’t surprise the questioner to hear that he thinks the answer is no. He felt he had to move Labour on, on things like Iraq.

Q: How do you feel about creating such divisions?

It is hard, says Miliband. It was bruising but it is healing.

Q: Did you not talk?

No, says Miliband, but relations were strained.

Your poor mum, says Burley.

She is quite hardened, Miliband says.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:58:34.001Z">at 9.58pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.54pm GMT

EU

Q: Why won’t you give people a vote on the EU?

Miliband says that is not his priority. Leaving the EU would be a disaster. Strategically, if you are dealing with terrorism or climate change, you have to be in the EU. If there is a transfer of power, he would have a referendum. But this is unlikely. Why would he have a referendum when he doesn’t want to leave?

Q: That’s not a definite no, it’s a politician’s answer.

I don’t think so, says Miliband.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T23:28:25.305Z">at 11.28pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.52pm GMT

Q: If you are prime minister, what will the budget deficit be at the end of the parliament?

Miliband says he wants to balance the budget. He will put up taxes for the highest earners. There will be some cuts. And under the Conservatives ...

Don’t talk about them, says Burley.

Miliband says it is relevant. We need to encourage growth, so we get more tax revenues.

</div>

9.51pm GMT

Q: I’m a higher-rate taxpayer. Labour’s messages make me feel demonised.

Miliband says he hopes to give a better message. Some people criticise him for wanting to cut tuition fees, saying it will help middle-class families. Too right I want to help middle-class families, he says.

We all benefit from better services, he says.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:52:37.215Z">at 9.52pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.49pm GMT

Miliband's Q&A with Burley

Burley
Burley

Q: Are things really that bad?

No, says Ed Miliband, but they could be a lot better. He would do something about it. We could do a lot better than this.

Cameron said he could not live on a zero hours contract. Nor could I. So let’s do something about it.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:59:21.436Z">at 9.59pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.47pm GMT

Cameron’s Q&A with Burley - Snap verdict

Cameron’s Q&A with Burley - Snap verdict: Well, that really sucked the life out of the event (and showed why professional interviewers are worth the money), and Cameron seemed to relax. (I would have said he relaxed visibly, but I’m typing, so mostly heard it, rather than watched it.) But the NHS question was sharp, and reinforced the point made by Paxman about Cameron having an iffy record on promise-keeping. And the “what do you regret” question was good too. My impression was that Cameron misjudged it. He started with a joke answer, and then resorted to: “I should have done what I did, only faster”. At this point a touch of humility may have served him better. But it was the familiar, rather cocksure, amiable bloke prime minister we saw, and all the evidence is that people don’t mind that much.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:54:23.802Z">at 9.54pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.46pm GMT

Cameron appears to welcome the slightly more open reception from Kay Burley.
Cameron appears to welcome the slightly more open reception from Kay Burley. Photograph: Stefan Rousseau/PA
</div>

9.42pm GMT

Q: If you could redo one thing from your time as prime minister, what would it be?

Cameron says he promised less noise, and more politeness at PMQs. That did not work out. On the economy, he wished he had done things like the help-to-buy housing programme quicker. But nothing will work without a strong economy.

Q: Have you ever had three shredded wheat?

Yes, but it was a long time ago.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:49:30.163Z">at 9.49pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.41pm GMT

Q: You promised no top-down NHS reorganisation. In our borough we had to take the government to court to keep our hospital open. You broke your promises. So how can we trust you?

Cameron says his biggest promise was not to cut the NHS. And he didn’t. He got rid of bureaucrats, and he is now treating more patients in the NHS. If he gets elected again, with a strong economy, he will go on investing in the NHS.

Factchecking
<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:36:32.219Z">at 10.36pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.39pm GMT

Paxman’s body language speaks loud and clear to Cameron.

Jeremy Paxman's body language speaks loud and clear to David Cameron.
</div>

9.39pm GMT

Q: Would you like to see more NHS services provided by private companies?

Cameron says he is happy to see charities or companies provide good healthcare. What matters is whether it is good. He loves the NHS. He recalls taking his desperately ill son Ivan to hospital. Private providers are a tiny proportion of the total.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:12:36.349Z">at 10.12pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.37pm GMT

BuzzFeed’s Emily Ashton has a point.

</div>

9.37pm GMT

Q: How will you convince the public not to opt out of the EU?

Cameron says Britain is at its best when it is an outward-looking, trading nation. The EU does some good things, but it is trying to do too much.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:43:02.123Z">at 9.43pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.36pm GMT

Q: What would you do to help disabled people?

Cameron says he wants genuine equality. The Disability Discrimination Act, introduced by William Hague in the 1990s, has had a good effect. But there is more to be done. The employment gap is too big. Some employers are very good, and accept that if they don’t employ disabled people, they are missing good people. It comes back to a strong economy.

Q: I still think there is more to be done. Social care is becoming harder.

Cameron says councils need to bring health and social care together more.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:42:48.212Z">at 9.42pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.33pm GMT

Burley interupts. She has a question on policing.

Q: Will you reverse the police cuts?

Cameron says he has huge respect for the police. Police budgets have been cut, but crime has come down too. Desk jobs were cut; forces were combined and there are still more efficiencies to be achieved.

Q: The Lincolnshire chief constable said services were close to collapse.

Cameron says he does not accept that.

Burley asks the questioner if he is happy with the response. He replies: “No comment.”

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:41:54.880Z">at 9.41pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.31pm GMT

Q: It has been said we have not seen anything yet as regards cuts to public services. How bad will it get?

Cameron says he did not want to make cuts. But he had to get the deficit down. What he needs to do in the next two years is similar to what has been done so far.

What he is suggesting is manageable and do-able, he says.

Q: Can you give some examples?

Cameron says he mentioned some earlier, such as cutting in-work benefits. He says he has saved £20bn this parliament by being smarter. There is more to be done. Businesses do this. They try and do this every year.

As an example, Cameron cites policing.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:35:40.257Z">at 9.35pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.29pm GMT

Esther Addley

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>To the audience! No Dimbleby tonight, but never not worth reviving this …<br /></p> <figure class="element element-video" data-canonical-url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3tUqRBiMVo"> </figure> </div>

9.28pm GMT

Q: Will you appoint a cabinet minister for older people?

Cameron thanks the questioner for her advocacy for older people. He says he will ensure pensioner benefits continue for everyone.

He was asked about such a ministerial role the other day. He will think about it. But he wants all of his ministers to be thinking about how to look after older people.

If the government is not doing right by older people, do not blame the others, he says; blame me.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:34:39.572Z">at 9.34pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.28pm GMT

A fact check from the Observer’s economics editor Heather Stewart:

David Cameron claimed that ‘the stock of debt is falling as a percentage of GDP’. George Osborne proudly announced at last week’s budget that it will fall in the coming financial year, 2015-16, but the prime minister is wrong to claim that it’s falling already; and as the Office for Budget Responsibility pointed out, he only achieved this forecast reduction by counting on the proceeds of a sell-off of some of the banking assets the Treasury has owned since the financial crisis.

The prime minister rightly told Jeremy Paxman that the coalition has cut the budget deficit - the gap between government revenue and spending each year - by half as a share of GDP since 2010 (though they hoped to eliminate it altogether).

However, he also claimed that “the stock of debt is falling as a percentage of GDP”. George Osborne proudly announced at last week’s Budget that debt as a share of the economy is now forecast by the office for budget responsibility to fall in the coming financial year - 2015-16 - fulfilling one of the Conservatives fiscal rules. But the prime minister is wrong to claim that it’s happened already. And as the Office for Budget Responsibility pointed out, he only achieved this forecast reduction by counting on the proceeds of a sell-off of some of the banking assets the Treasury has owned since the financial crisis. In cash terms, public sector net debt was £771bn in 2009-2010; it is expected to end the current financial year at £1489bn

And this from the Guardian’s home affairs correspondent Alan Travis on Cameron’s VAT claims:

Paxman told Cameron that in the 2010 election “you said to my face, twice, that you would not raise VAT. But you did”.

Cameron responded: “There is a crucial difference on this occasion. We are the government... we know what is necessary in the next Parliament. Our plans do not include increases in VAT or national insurance or income tax. We are very clear about that...The right approach is to find savings not to put up taxes.”

His wording is already a retreat from his promise at prime minister’s question time on Wednesday firmly ruling out any VAT rises. His language now echoes almost exactly what he said in 2010.

On April 23 2010 Cameron said: “We have absolutely no plans to raise VAT. Our first budget is all about recognising we need to get spending under control rather than putting up tax.”

In June 2009 he he had been even more unequivocal saying: “You could try, as you say, to put it on VAT, sales tax, but again if you look at the effect of sales tax, it’s very regressive, it hits the poorest the hardest. It does, I absolutely promise you. Any sales tax, anything that goes on purchases that you make in shops tends to . . . if you look at it, where VAT goes now it doesn’t go on food, obviously, but it goes very, very widely and VAT is a more regressive tax than income tax or council tax.”

But neither statement prevented George Osborne raising the standard rate of VAT from 17.5% to 20% in his ‘emergency budget’ on 22 June 2010.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:57:05.208Z">at 9.57pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.26pm GMT

Cameron's Q&A with Burley

Burley

Q: [From Matthew] What are Ed Miliband’s best qualities?

Cameron laughs. “That is a tricky one. All of us put ourselves forward because we want to do the right thing.” He says he admires Miliband for voting with him over Islamic State.

Q: You called him despicable.

Cameron says Miliband calls him things too. He called Cameron dodgy that day. He took his daughter to PMQs this week, and she said she would not be allowed to behave like that at school.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:34:25.206Z">at 9.34pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.24pm GMT

This is from Stewart Wood, one of Miliband’s closest advisers.

</div>

9.24pm GMT

Esther Addley

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>“Could you live on a zero hours contract?”<br />“How much money have you borrowed?”<br />“There’s a credibility problem here, isn’t there?”<br />“What do you think has been your biggest foreign policy disaster?”<br />“What would it take for you to vote no in a referendum on our continued participation in the European Union?”<br />“A vote for Cameron is a vote for two, three, four years, after which it’s Boris Johnson or ... Uncle Tom Cobbley?”<br /><br />Oh Paxo, how we’ve missed you!</p> <figure class="element element-image" data-media-id="ed3b5e7e2143d1540b7b18786d0752b4128970aa"> <img src="https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/26/1427405163408/33189864-a474-477b-81d9-36896e4a1e2b-460x276.jpeg" alt="Paxman" width="460" height="276" class="gu-image" /> <figcaption> <span class="element-image__caption">Paxman</span> </figcaption> </figure> </div> <p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:26:13.425Z">at 9.26pm GMT</time></p>

9.22pm GMT

Paxman interviews Cameron - Snap verdict

Paxman interviews Cameron - Snap verdict: What a class act. Paxman, of course. Not just because the questions were aggressive, but because they were pointed, clever, witty (and aggressive). It was Cameron’s most uncomfortable 20 minutes in an interview for ages. His concession that he could not live on a zero hours contract is already being used against him by Labour, but overall he held up reasonably well, and even managed a lighthearted comment at the end.

</div>

9.20pm GMT

The third term

Cameron

Q: You said you won’t stand for a third term. So after three or four years, we could get someone else, or “uncle Tom Cobbley”.

Cameron says he will serve a full third term. But he does not think he is indispensable.

And that bit of the show is over.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:25:30.281Z">at 9.25pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.18pm GMT

Europe

Q: What would it take for you to vote no in an EU referendum?

Cameron says if it were not in Britain’s interests, he would not recommend staying.

Q: So, by implication, our current membership is intolerable.

Cameron says it could be improved. He wants to give people a proper choice. And people will only get a referendum with him as prime minister.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:24:35.511Z">at 9.24pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.17pm GMT

Foreign policy

Q: What is your biggest foreign policy disaster?

Cameron mentions cutting the EU budget, and going into Libya.

Q: You promised that Britain would stand by the people of Libya.

Cameron says it was right to go into Libya. Britain put in aid, and military assistance.

Q: People are being beheaded on the beach.

Cameron says it has been very difficult.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:19:59.644Z">at 9.19pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.16pm GMT

Welfare cuts

Q: Can you tell us where this £12bn in welfare cuts will come from?

Cameron says £13bn needs to come from departments, and £12bn from welfare. He would freeze in-work benefits for two years. That £12bn ...

Q: £10bn of which you have not explained. Where will the cuts fall?

It is possible to make the savings, Cameron says.

Q: I don’t want to be rude. Do you know and are you not saying? Or do you not know?

Cameron says the Tories could cut the benefit cap. They would stop young people getting housing benefit.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:18:37.907Z">at 9.18pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.13pm GMT

VAT

Q: At the last election you said to my face, twice, that you would not raise VAT. But you did.

Cameron says now that he is in government he has been able to look at the books.

He wants to find £1 of waste in every £100 of government spending. His opponents want to put up taxes.

Q: You said one thing, but did another.

Cameron says he had an appalling inheritance from Labour. He had to get the deficit down. Employment is growing; the economy is working.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:17:37.651Z">at 9.17pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.11pm GMT

The national debt

Q: You said before the election the country was overwhelmed by debt. Do you know how much you are borrowing?

Cameron says he expects Paxman to tell him. That gets a minor laugh.

Paxman says it is £500bn.

Cameron says we need to cut the deficit more quickly.

Q: My point is the chasm between what was said and what was done. You said you would cut immigration. What is it?

Cameron says it has not been cut to the tens of thousands.

Q: You have failed.

Cameron says we need to fix the broken welfare system. He outlines his proposed changes to welfare rules for migrants.

Q: You have not done what you said. It was a ‘no ifs, not buts’ promise.

Cameron says he has not met the commitment he made. “I fully accept that.”

Fact check on the national debt question by FullFact.org

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:55:39.581Z">at 10.55pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.11pm GMT

Esther Addley

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>Judging by their red carpet arrival pap shots, David Cameron and Ed Miliband have chosen to dress, respectively, in bright royal blue and slightly lighter (more Republican?) blue. Paxman, (HE’S ENTIRELY IMPARTIAL, REMEMBER), is in a scarlet tie, while Burley’s gone for a shade of neon pink that seems to have made even her eyes go a bit funny.</p> <p>First blood, meanwhile, to Paxman, who is the first to mention a chap a friend of his met somewhere in the north who handily illustrates his political point. Drink!</p> <p>Food banks, zero hours’ contracts, Stephen Green at HSBC, Paxo, the deficit and immigration in the first 10 minutes. Cameron currently wondering why on earth he didn’t go for the mano-a-mano against Miliband.</p> <figure class="element element-tweet" data-canonical-url="https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/statuses/581199885849907200"> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Thought <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BattleForNumber10?src=hash">#BattleForNumber10</a> was going to be a football documentary about the game's greats.</p>&mdash; Gary Lineker (@GaryLineker) <a href="https://twitter.com/GaryLineker/status/581199885849907200">March 26, 2015</a></blockquote> </figure> </div> <p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:16:53.155Z">at 9.16pm GMT</time></p>

9.08pm GMT

Minimum wage

Cameron says he wants a higher minimum wage. But it has gone up.

And he has cut taxes. Low-paid people have been taken out of income tax, he says.

Q: You couldn’t live on a ZHC. I’m going to get personal. You chose someone who was a rich banker who advised on tax avoidance to your government. You chose to appoint a rich newspaper person who hacked phones to No 10. And you chose to defend a rich TV presenter who hit someone. What do these people have in common?

Cameron says they are different cases. He defends former HSBC boss Stephen Green. On Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson, he says he did not know what happened. Clarkson is a friend, but it was up to the BBC to decide what to do after he assaulted a producer.

The aspersion you are trying to make is ridiculous.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:16:49.947Z">at 9.16pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.05pm GMT

Zero hours contracts

Q: How many jobs are zero hours contracts?

About one in 50.

Q: Could you live on one?

Cameron starts answering. As Paxman tries to interrupt, he says “Hold on”.

Paxman keeps repeating the question about whether Cameron could live on a ZHC.

That’s not the question, says Cameron.

It’s my question, says Paxman.

Cameron says the government outlawed exclusive ZHCs. He could not live on one. That is why they got rid of them.

Fact check on zero hours contracts by FullFact.org

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T22:56:15.479Z">at 10.56pm GMT</time></p> </div>

9.03pm GMT

Paxman interviews Cameron

Q: Do you know how many food banks there were when you came to power.

Not exactly, says Cameron. But the people who run them do a good job.

Q: There were 66. Now it’s 421. You said you would fix the broken society. You didn’t.

(Paxman isn’t holding back.)

Cameron says he does not accept that. Labour did not promote food banks in job centres.

</div>

9.00pm GMT

We're under way: Cameron/Miliband in #BattleforNumber10

Cameron

Jeremy Paxman opens the programme.

He says it is the first big test of the election.

Kay Burley introduces the studio audience, and talks through the order of play.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T21:19:31.345Z">at 9.19pm GMT</time></p> </div>

8.59pm GMT

Here we go.

</div>

8.55pm GMT

</div>

8.53pm GMT

Douglas Alexander, Labour election strategy chair, is in the spin room spinning for Ed Miliband.

</div>

8.51pm GMT

Esther Addley’s alternative (non-)debate commentary

Esther Addley

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>Okay, so it’s not a debate. Try to control your disappointment. Cameron and Miliband will not trade verbal jousts, and will not even appear in the same room at the same time, though the reluctant prime minister might be regretting his determined resistance on that point after his rampant performance at PMQs yesterday.</p> <p>But at last, after months of barracking and blather, we finally get our first chance to decide who wins “The Battle for Number 10” when the two heavyweights finally square up against each other. I’ll be reporting on the night from an armchair pundit’s point of view, offering a slightly different slant from Andrew – more The Thick of It than Newsnight.</p> <figure class="element element-tweet" data-canonical-url="https://twitter.com/davidschneider/statuses/581187198952861696"> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Cameron (right of pic) insists on hazmat suit to ensure no debatey contact with Miliband tonight <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/battlefornumber10?src=hash">#battlefornumber10</a> <a href="http://t.co/3LKWEKjz3s">pic.twitter.com/3LKWEKjz3s</a></p>&mdash; David Schneider (@davidschneider) <a href="https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/581187198952861696">March 26, 2015</a></blockquote> </figure> <p>So which is it to be? Sky or Channel 4? Fittingly for such an entirely bizarre event, both broadcasters are screening “Cameron and Miliband Live” (that’s “and”, you will note, not “versus”), and if that wasn’t strange enough, it’s co-presented by two formidable battlers in their own right, Jeremy Paxman - making his first major post-Newsnight appearance - and Kay Burley, <a href="http:// http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8423480/Kay-Burley-Skys-first-lady-sets-Westminster-tongues-wagging.html">whom the Telegraph once called “the high-heeled hellcat from Hounslow”</a>, which we think means she’s an aggressive interviewer who is a woman.</p> <p>At least we can be confident this will be an entirely impartial non-debate – <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10929289/Newsnight-is-made-by-13-year-olds-says-Jeremy-Paxman">the fact that Paxman has admitted to being a “one nation Tory”</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/shamindernahal/status/581145121581867008">reportedly recently “seriously considered” standing for the party in Kensington and Chelsea are of absolutely no consequence</a>.</p> <figure class="element element-image element--thumbnail" data-media-id="493f27bf2c88b7c8feafa1bff1c134a4f53738a6"> <img src="https://media.guim.co.uk/493f27bf2c88b7c8feafa1bff1c134a4f53738a6/83_740_731_1096/667.jpg" alt="Kay Burley." width="667" height="1000" class="gu-image" /> <figcaption> <span class="element-image__caption">Kay Burley.</span> </figcaption> </figure> <p>Burley has not declared a party allegiance, <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_cUiCjggE">though she did tell the director of the campaign group 38 Degrees</a> that a protest at Westminster would “make no difference whatsoever … Why don’t you just go home?”, and there <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xco7o7-uTiI">was also that time</a> she called a campaigner from Yes Scotland a “knob”.</p> <p>Unlikely studio-mates, perhaps, but according to the Daily Mail they are getting along swimmingly, with Burley marching up to a glum-looking Paxman at rehearsals and proclaiming <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/26/jeremy-paxman-kay-burley-election-debate-david-cameron-ed-miliband">“On your feet, big guy, and give me a snog”.</a><br /></p> <p>Fingers crossed for more of that this evening.<br /></p> </div> <p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T20:56:40.557Z">at 8.56pm GMT</time></p>

8.50pm GMT

This sounds like wishful thinking.

I’m afraid a Lib Dem win isn’t an option with our ICM poll.

</div>

8.48pm GMT

The two parties tossed a coin to decide who went first. Labour won, and Ed Miliband decided to go second.

The two party leaders also decided in what order to do the interview/Q&A sections. David Cameron chose to have his Paxman encounter first, while Miliband decided to confront the audience before being formally interviewed.

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T20:56:55.051Z">at 8.56pm GMT</time></p> </div>

8.46pm GMT

Nigel Farage is speaking to Sky’s Adam Boulton.

Asked who he expects to win, he says at least David Cameron has a message. He does not know what Labour stands for.

I suspect that Cameron will get the upper hand.

Nigel Farage at the Sky studio
Nigel Farage at the Sky studio Photograph: Sky News
</div>

8.42pm GMT

Here are more pictures from Sky HQ.

And, for some reason, the Iron Throne from the Game of Thrones is there.

</div>

8.36pm GMT

</div>

8.35pm GMT

Nigel Farage turns up

Nigel Farage has turned up.

Perhaps he’ll end up winning?

</div>

8.23pm GMT

More from the spin room.

Some of us are used to writing as we go along ...

</div>

8.20pm GMT

Polling benchmarks

Soon after tonight’s event is over, the Guardian will publish the results of an ICM poll of viewers who have watched the whole programme. Respondents will be asked who they think “won”, and the results will be weighted demographically, and by past voting, so that they give a reasonable idea as to what a representative sample of the electorate would say if they had watched the programme.

But who would you expect to win? Here are at least three benchmarks you could use.

Party polling

Sometimes the results of debate polls closely mirror party polls. If that happens tonight, it will be a draw, because Labour and the Conservatives are effectively tied in the current polls. Here’s the Guardian’s graph showing the average of latest polls, with Labour on 33.6% and the Conservatives on 33.4%.

That means if either Cameron or Miliband secure a clear win, they will be able to say they are outperforming their party.

Current polls
Current polls Photograph: Guardian

Leader perceptions

But voters already have views about Cameron and Miliband. And they think Cameron would make the best prime minister. Here are the latest figures on this from YouGov’s tracker (pdf).

Who would make the best prime minister?

Cameron: 39%

Miliband: 21%

That means, if people judge the debate partly in accordance with their views on who might make the best prime minister, you would expect Cameron to win easily. If he doesn’t, Miliband could arguably claim that he is outperforming expectations.

Leader perceptions
Leader perceptions Photograph: YouGov

Leaders’ approval

There is another way of judging leaders: asking whether they are doing well or badly. And, on this measure, as the YouGov figures show (pdf), Miliband is far behind Cameron. (This probably reflects critical coverage of Miliband in the media, and polling evidence suggesting that, unlike Cameron, he is having a negative effect on support for his party.) If you take this as a benchmark, then, just so long as Miliband does not get trounced by Cameron, he can go home arguing he has made some progress.

Cameron: -5 (45% well, 50% badly)

Miliband: -39 (26% well, 65% badly)

<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T20:21:27.180Z">at 8.21pm GMT</time></p> </div>

8.11pm GMT

Cameron arrives

And David Cameron has now just arrived.

David Cameron arriving at Sky
<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T20:14:26.987Z">at 8.14pm GMT</time></p> </div>

7.58pm GMT

Labour is effectively trying to “sledge” Cameron on Twitter.

</div>

7.54pm GMT

Miliband arrives

Ed Miliband has arrived at the Sky studios in west London.

Ed Miliband arriving at Sky
<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T20:06:33.215Z">at 8.06pm GMT</time></p> </div>

7.50pm GMT

But what do the real voters think? We have 60 on standby to give their view as part of our polling project with BritainThinks, which is following voters in five key seats through the campaign.

Each of the 60 has been given a smartphone app that will enable them to tell us their instant verdicts on the leaders as they speak, giving you a snapshot of opinion among people whose votes in key marginals could decide who gets the keys to Downing Street.

Remember to refresh the blog regularly, as these opinions will be added to older posts as they come in to make sure they don’t break up the chronological flow of topics discussed by Cameron and Miliband.

</div>

7.36pm GMT

My colleague Rowena Mason is at the “spin room” at the Sky studios where the Cameron/Miliband showdown will take place.

It is not exactly buzzing, she says.

</div>

7.28pm GMT

How many people are likely to watch tonight’s programme? My colleague John Plunkett, the Guardian media correspondent, has sent me this.

Predicting TV ratings is a mug’s game - so here goes.

Channel 4 and Sky News will be hoping for a combined audience of at least 2 million viewers for tonight’s election opener with Cameron and Miliband.

The 2010 debates did huge ratings, with more than 9 million viewers tuning into the opening head-to-head on ITV. But this isn’t a debate and Channel 4 didn’t have one last time, so there’s no precedent.

The good news for C4 and Sky is that there’s not much competition, up against BBC1’s The Truth About Calories and The Triplets Are Coming! on ITV (and Jimmy McGovern’s acclaimed drama Banished on BBC2).

Channel 4 had 1.7 million viewers in the slot last week for its Trevor Phillips documentary, Things We Won’t Say About Race That Are True, while Sky News tends gets 500,000 viewers or more during big breaking news stories.

So a combined audience of 2 million-plus – the sort of audience BBC1 gets for Question Time – is the target. More than 3 million and Paxo will have truly stuffed the opposition. They’ll be delighted.

Cameron, Nick Clegg and Gordon Brown during the 2010 TV debates.
Cameron, Nick Clegg and Gordon Brown during the 2010 TV debates. Photograph: Stefan Rousseau/PA
<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T19:53:02.553Z">at 7.53pm GMT</time></p> </div>

7.13pm GMT

Alberto Nardelli

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>Do debates actually affect the polls? <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/mar/26/election-2015-could-the-debates-move-the-polls">My colleague Alberto Nardelli has written a shrewd analysis</a>. Here’s his conclusion.</p> <blockquote class="quoted"> <p>The polling data from 2010 shows us that the debates did generate real movement in the polling, even if much of that was erased by polling day.</p> <p>That explains why Cameron is so keen not to have any debates close to polling day – having them some distance out arguably reduces any risk of him performing badly and suddenly falling in the polls. </p> <p>In an election that is closely fought and involves a large number of parties, even small movements like those in 2010 could be sufficient to influence the overall outcome of the vote on 7 May.</p> </blockquote> </div> <p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T19:44:12.278Z">at 7.44pm GMT</time></p>

7.03pm GMT

Any big broadcasting event like this is a clash between two alpha egos, each determined to assert their superiority. The competition can be brutal.

But I shouldn’t be too harsh about Jeremy Paxman and Kay Burley, because they do seem to be making an effort to get on. To make the point, Sky News has released this.

Earlier, Burley was showing Sky viewers the set. She will stand behind a podium ...

Kay Burley on set
Kay Burley on set Photograph: Sky News

... while Paxo gets one of these chairs.

Kay Burley
Kay Burley Photograph: Sky News
<p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T19:45:49.520Z">at 7.45pm GMT</time></p> </div>

6.48pm GMT

If tonight’s debate , sorry showdown, is as jolly as this - Michael Crick doorstepping Jeremy Paxman (his former Newsnight colleague) and challenging him about being a Tory - then we will be fine.

</div>

6.40pm GMT

Welcome to tonight's #notadebate coverage

Andrew Sparrow

&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;&lt;/body&gt;&lt;/html&gt;"&gt; <p>Welcome to tonight’s live blog covering ... well, we’re not quite sure what to call it.</p> <p>It is not quite a head-to-head debate between David Cameron and Ed Miliband. But arguably it is the nearest thing we’re going to get to one, because all the other debates or debate-related election events will involve other parties. This is the only one that will pit just these two against each other.</p> <p>And there will be a winner. The Guardian has commissioned a snap poll from ICM and, soon after the event finishes at 10.30pm, we will be publishing the results, which will show who respondents think “won” the contest, as well as who came over as more appealing and more convincing.</p> <p>The event is jointly organised by Sky News and Channel 4 and they are billing it as the #BattleForNumber10 (a terrible hashtag, not least because #BattleForNo10 would have been shorter). On Twitter others are calling it the #notadebate, or #camVmili.</p> <p><a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/26/leaders-debates-general-election-2015-david-cameron-ed-miliband-jeremy-paxman">My colleague Rowena Mason has written a guide to the format</a>. Jeremy Paxman is interviewing the two leaders and his co-presenter, Kay Burley, will be moderating as Cameron and Miliband take questions from the audience. And here is a guide to the key timings.</p> <p><em><strong>9pm:</strong></em> The programme starts, with Paxman interviewing Cameron.</p> <p><em><strong>Around 9.25pm:</strong></em> Cameron’s Q&amp;A, moderated by Burley.</p> <p><em><strong>Around 9.45pm:</strong> </em>Miliband’s Q&amp;A, moderated by Burley.</p> <p><em><strong>Around 10.10pm:</strong></em> Paxman interviews Miliband.</p> <p><em><strong>Soon after 10.30pm:</strong> </em>The Guardian’s ICM poll figures are published, here on this blog.</p> <p>The official election campaign hasn’t quite started. But we’re almost there - tonight Downing Street announced the date when parliament will be summoned after the election - and Cameron will face up to Paxman after a rollercoaster day and a half.</p> <p>Yesterday he won rave reviews for his performance in the final PMQs of this parliament.</p> <p>But today he has suffered two difficult defeats: in the supreme court, <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/mar/26/supreme-court-clears-way-release-secret-prince-charles-letters-black-spider-memos">where the government has lots its battle to block the publication of secret letters from Prince Charles;</a> and in the Commons, <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/26/tory-backbench-rebellion-defeats-hagues-attempt-to-unseat-speaker-john-bercow">where a Tory attempt to introduce a rule change that could pave the way for John Bercow being ousted as Speaker was voted down</a> after a dramatic debate. </p> <p>I will be covering developments in the runup to tonight’s Cameron/Miliband showdown, as well as covering the event itself and bringing you the best reaction and analysis afterwards - as well as full details of that poll.</p> <p>While the event is taking place, we will have a live feed at the top of our blog.</p> <p>And we will also be posting Factcheck analyses as it goes on, and reaction from our panel of floating voters.</p> <p>If you want to follow me on Twitter, I’m on <a href="https://twitter.com/AndrewSparrow">@AndrewSparrow.</a></p> <figure class="element element-image" data-media-id="b7083158147aa9bea43f644930236556fd93a22d"> <img src="https://media.guim.co.uk/b7083158147aa9bea43f644930236556fd93a22d/0_0_5154_3100/1000.jpg" alt="Ed Miliband and David Cameron will face audience questions moderated by Kay Burley" width="1000" height="601" class="gu-image" /> <figcaption> <span class="element-image__caption">Ed Miliband and David Cameron will face audience questions moderated by Kay Burley.</span> <span class="element-image__credit">Photograph: EPA/Sky/Getty</span> </figcaption> </figure> </div> <p class="block-time updated-time">Updated <time datetime="2015-03-26T19:48:26.594Z">at 7.48pm GMT</time></p> <p>guardian.co.uk © Guardian News &amp; Media Limited 2010</p> <p>Published via the <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/open-platform/news-feed-wordpress-plugin" target="_blank" title="Guardian plugin page">Guardian News Feed</a> <a href="http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/the-guardian-news-feed/" target="_blank" title="Wordress plugin page">plugin</a> for WordPress.</p><!-- END GUARDIAN WATERMARK -->

Funny sort of day

I seem to be in a bit of a dip at present. The weekend went fairly well, (Three gigs with my roots hat on as part of the Delta Ladies ) but despite this  my mood has dived again. I am worried about how things will go in the future.  Today I have been forcing myself to get on with stuff, but I feel very disconnected. Hopefully this will pass but it makes life difficult.

village-bicycle

Nope it a bit of a crappy day 🙂